Dialog With Dan Bar-On
Prof. Dan Bar-On responded to an excited argument on the IPPEN network, and this triggered our dialogue.
That one took place as follows.
----------- Message no. 1 -------------
From: Bar-On Dan <danbaron@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
To: <amayreh@p-ol.com>
Cc: <ippen@mscc.huji.ac.il>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: ippen Fresh reply from Khalid
Dear Friends,
I listen to your hammering voices and send you my own alegory for some thought.
I hope it will introduce some new openness?
Yours
Dan Bar-On
Attached allegory:
We as Mice and the Flowers Around Us
----------- Message no. 2 -------------
From: Asher Shla'in
To: Dan Bar-On
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 2:23 AM
Subject: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dear Dan.
I read your allegory an it did give me some new insights, though not with all
your analysis I see eye to eye.
I wrote a story which points to a different possibility - fantastic as it might
seem.
I enclose here Word files which include both the Hebrew
and the English versions of my story and the
accompanying letter.
You will see that this is a story, not a research.
I would like to spread it as much as possible. I am very much interested in
Arabs (or, if you like, Palestinians) reading it and giving any response.
By the way, I am ready to send my work by regular mail too, in one or both
languages - at least until it is out of stock.
Lately I wrote a continuing story, ending (as yet) in
winter 2001. as for now it is in the phase of draft and only in
Hebrew. I can mail it to you if you are interested.
Asher
----------- Message no. 3 -------------
From: Bar-On Dan
To: Asher Shla'in
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dear Asher,
I will read it and tell you my reactions.
Thank you,
Dan
----------- Message no. 4 -------------
From: Bar-On Dan
To: Asher Shla'in
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dear Asher,
I read your story and I remember reading it already once before. It is for me
an example how we build ourself a fantasy world so that we will not have to
change, only they will have to. How would you respond if Achmed Abed (a
fictitious name) would come out tomorrow with an equivalent story from the
Arab-Muslim side, concerning a Jewish new movement that suddenly recalls the
old good days with the Muslims in Spain and wants to throw out all the
Ashkenazim who caused all the Balagan in this region and become Muslims and
integrate in the Middle East without all these extreme symbols. How would you
feel?
All the best and have a good day (I hope you can go to work as you have no
Keter and no seger...),
Dan
----------- Message no. 5 -------------
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dan dear.
It took you some 15 minutes to read my story (though in a second time) and it
was sufficient to produce very good questions. I think your questions are
worthy of my effort to answer them, and I think also of your effort to read my
answer.
The questions are two: (1) "How would you respond...?" (2)
"how would you feel?" Both are hypothetical with no actual document.
I think the details have great influence on the reaction. Yet I shall do my
best to answer each of them. It is my personal reaction which obliges nobody
else.
How would I respond? For sure I would consider it an important story because it
is written by Achmed Abed (and not, for instance by Dan Bar-On). I would read
it thoroughly and try to listen to the reactions that rise in my mind. I
would be conscious to what arouses my resistance and why so.
I would also try to hear Achmed's voice behind the story and discern his
feelings and motives. I would also try to learn something from the story in
terms of new insights and of the results it can achieve. I think that if
I am not afraid to do so (and fortunately as an Israeli Jew I am safe) I would
try to connect with Achmed Abed and give him a piece of my mind. (at this point
I can say that few Arabs more or less did what I have just described).
It so happens that I am from an ashkenazi origin (which is not fully true about
my children), and would not like to be thrown out, but I am sure that the
typical oriental Jew could explain to Achmed that his bond with the rest of
Jewry cannot be undone. One could also explain to Achmed that any scheme to
throw people out is not feasible. I would suggest to Ahmed to read my story
attentively and give me his honest detailed response.
If both of us regard each other as sincere and caring (and if Achmed is not too
frightened of his "side") we could engage in a precious dialogue.
How would I feel? That is more difficult to assess. The tone of the story can
influence my feeling more than the plot. I could be angry at the man's
disregard of my human and national rights, I could feel manipulated by
someone who does nothing more than serving the anti Israeli propaganda, but I
could also feel sympathy toward a naive person that believes he has the key to
solving such a complicated situation. I think that I would not feel
offended, especially if I would believe that the story was written out of love.
Now Dan, after doing my best to answer your questions, I want to react briefly
to your other remarks.
My story involves a great revolution in the Jewish and Zionist perception, so I
can't agree that this fantasy is built "so that we will not have to change,
only they will have to."
Did you miss it because of the swift "efficient" reading or because
you resist a way that endangers the sacred "separation?".
I can go to work without obstacle, but nowadays I wish my dear ones to avoid
markets an other crowded places.
My offer to supply the continuing story is in effect.
I can also supply a file of an e-mail dialogue that I had conducted with Khalid
Amayreh. That document is a sample of my activity in the actual reality and its
very limited results.
In any case I thank you for the opportunity to think these thoughts and write
this message
Yours,
Asher
----------- Message no. 6 -------------
From: Bar-On Dan
To: Asher Shla'in
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Hi Asher,
I will leave out your comments about my "efficient" reading. Though
you have reacted to my proposal on some distant level, you did not try to
reflect on how these two stories stand one near the other (which was the
purpose of my proposal in the first place, in case your reading did not get
that sense).
I guess we come from very different personal perspectives into this domain. I
feel that your fantasy is aggressive toward the "Other" but I hear
you that you do not sense this aggressiveness but see it as
"benevolence".
I wish you all the best and hope for the better for all of us (Yishmeelim or
Yitzhakim).
Dan
----------- Message no. 7 -------------
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dan,
In light of the tone in your former message I was not sure at all that you will
grant me the benefit of a reply. I am thankful that you did.
I can understand that for some people, coming "from very different
personal perspectives into this domain" is a good reason to minimize the
dialogue, and I truly respect that. I am different. For me, the
perspective is also an important issue for discourse. I did learn to
reconcile myself with the fact that most people do not share my taste for
communication.
I have my signs that you would prefer not to get too involved with what I try
to open - and this is not something to complain about.
So, even if you prefer to end it here, I shall just respond briefly to your
recent comments.
I did reflect to myself on how these two stories stand one near the
other. My answer was not meant on a distant level, but a sincere
effort to simulate reaction to a non-existing document. If a
Palestinian would write a story in a similar tone, something that could be put near
mine - that would be a treasure! The contents would be of a lesser importance.
You sort of simulate the reaction of the proverbial "other", but then
you may be biased by your political perspective; is it not threatened by the
concept upheld in the story?
My aim in spreading the story was just to check what people feel. It is clear
now what is your attitude. I cannot rely on your response as for the
feelings of a Palestinian. Some of them did react in an utterly different
way, maybe because they did not find in it aggressiveness disguised as
benevolence, but rather self-criticism, equality, respect and love.
It was a privilege to converse with you.
Asher
----------- Message no. 8 -------------
From: Bar-On Dan
To: Asher Shla'in
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Palestrael Papers
Dear Asher,
Good to know different approaches, as you say, even if they do not meet on some
deeper level. I do not think you can learn much about my political approach,
rather about my ethical or psychological ones. But this can be a separate
conversation.
I wish you success,
Dan
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